Jeff interviews Avie Esakov, a Jewish Canadian tour operator from International Heritage Tours about his recent trip to Israel. Avie shares about conditions in Israel and the outlook for tourism in the days ahead. He also comments on two recent archaeological discoveries in Israel as well.
If you enjoy our podcast, please consider supporting the show HERE so that our Bible-based message about Israel can continue. God blesses those who bless Israel! We agree with God's Word that He will bless you richly in return!
Jeff interviews Avie Esakov, a Jewish Canadian tour operator from International Heritage Tours about his recent trip to Israel. Avie shares about conditions in Israel and the outlook for tourism in the days ahead. He also comments on two recent archaeological discoveries in Israel as well.
If you enjoy our podcast, please consider supporting the show HERE so that our Bible-based message about Israel can continue. God blesses those who bless Israel! We agree with God's Word that He will bless you richly in return!
Welcome to the Keeping at Israel podcast with Jeff Futers. We're Jeff and his guests talk. Everything Israel as it relates to Christian faith and the church. If you are a Christian and you stand with Israel, you will be encouraged and challenged by this podcast. And if you're not so sure about the whole Israel thing, you need to learn how your faith connects with Israel, and why standing with Israel matters. Now here's Jeff with today's guest.
Jeff Futers :My name is Jeff, welcome to the Keeping it Israel podcast today. And today, my guest is Avie Esakov. Avie is Jewish and from the GTA. He is a tour operator from the Greater Toronto Area, but has an interesting history. He'll share a little bit about that with us. He's also going to share what things are like on the ground in Israel right now. He's just just come back from a trip about three days ago. And then a special treat for you a couple of recent discoveries. He's one of the Galilee region and one up around outside Jerusalem. He's going to share a little bit about some of those discoveries as well. I hope that you will enjoy this podcast, just a word for those of you who are listening to the podcast by audio. If you're interested in any of the photos that we're sharing on this podcast, you can go to our YouTube channel First Century Foundations and you can see the podcast there on video. Anyway, let's go to my interview with Avie Esakov Welcome to the podcast today and today on the keeping it Israel podcast I have as my guest, my good friend, Avie Esakov. Did I say that right, by the way?
Avie Esakov :Avie Esakov, that's fine
Jeff Futers :Esakov. Okay. So Avie, without me explaining too much. Why don't you tell us who you are. And how did you get to this point? Your life.
Avie Esakov :I'm an African mind you have the wrong complexion, and went to Israel in 1964 as a teenager. And studied then went through law school, didn't really like law, went into tennis equipment. And then my ex wife found a little advertisement for tour guides course. And so I did the tour guides course. I guided in Israel for some 30 something years, and then found myself in Canada in the year 2000. In 2001, nobody was traveling to Israel, and we had a group of Jewish people visibly Jewish going to Israel from B'nai Brith, Canada. And I was leading that group. Christians for Israel got wind of it, and so they joined the journey. We had I think just under 40 people going 20 of whom were Christians, and the Ministry of Tourism brought TV to the airport when we left, when I got back, I was headhunted by a company who wanted to renew their Israel connection. And so I started sending people to, to Israel, back in 2001/2002. And I've been doing that ever since. My company now is Unique and Inspiring Journeys. And I've just returned from a visit to Israel.
Jeff Futers :Okay. Now, when you and I met, you were kind of in the middle of what you're talking about taking Christian groups in particular to Israel. And during that time, I think we connected around 2006 or seven. And, and during that time, you have actually sort of become in my denomination, at least the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada. We lovingly referred to you as Mr. Israel. So So tell us a little bit about that. How did you how did you sort of get entrenched in the PAOC and helping churches?
Avie Esakov :Well, the the very first time I took a pastor's journey, it was with the help of the general superintendent, Bill Morrow, who's a very good friend. And we took several large church leaders from PAOC on a journey to Israel. And it was a very, very special journey because again, nobody was visiting Israel. Subsequently, many of those church leaders have joined me going to Israel. And Bill indicated to me that there's an annual conference or a biannual conference that the organization has, and that each district has an annual conference or biannual conference as well. And so over time, I've attended virtually all of these conferences over the last probably 14 years, and it on several occasions at the plenary of the PAOC national conferences, I address the plenary from the podium. So yeah, luckily for me, I become Mr. Israel in the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada and through the connection with Dave wells and Empower 21 as well.
Jeff Futers :Excellent. Well, we know that you've helped a number of churches, district superintendents, the general superintendent, take trips. And here's the thing right now. Tourism in Israel because of this situation we find ourselves in in the world. It's suffering right now. You've just come back from Israel, correct?
Avie Esakov :Yes, I just got back three days ago. It was a very interesting endeavor. It goes back to March 7, my son had his Bar Mitzvah, March 7, thank God. And then March nine, Israel mandated 14 day quarantine for anyone entering Israel. I had a group leaving on March 9, 10 o'clock in the morning, we had to pull the plug on that one. And we've now subsequently had to cancel all the journeys for for 2020. So I decided once my daughter had set up vacation time to leave her apartment for three weeks, I decided that since I had to be two weeks quarantine in Israel, like go to her apartment, which is what I did. I spent two weeks in quarantine in Israel, and then started traveling to Israel and really had a wonderful, wonderful time.
Jeff Futers :Now, what was the purpose of your travel? Was it personal or?
Avie Esakov :Well, it's a combination. I have 12 grandkids in Israel. And so, six months is a long time not to see your grandkids, especially when I've been going sort of like once a month. And with groups scheduled all the way through July of this year. I had a very promising agenda of flying basically once a month to Israel. The reason for me traveling at this point was to actually get a feel for what's going on on the ground in Israel, as one travels through different areas, and I only focused on the Galilee, the area around Tel Dan, and Zippori, and then Jerusalem several, several occasions to Jerusalem.
Jeff Futers :Very good. So from from what you observed and what you're hearing in the industry, what's the what's the outlook for tourism in Israel? What is this gonna? What is this going to look like? And can you even project any kind of timing going forward?
Avie Esakov :I would be very reluctant to project the timeline. I have groups scheduled for January, February, March of next year. Time will tell if that's going to work. In the meantime, round about the first week of August the Ministry of Tourism put out a notice that come August 16, there will be a change that they're going to announce about incoming tourism from what's called Green countries and Canada is one of the green countries. Okay. And unfortunately, however, the numbers in Israel have gone crazy. And it's mainly because instead of dealing with it on a medical purely medical issue, they're dealing with it in a political issue. And so there are limitations to what can be done because of internal politics, and that's creating havoc in certain neighborhoods, which so happened to be the Arab population of Israel and the ultra orthodox populations of Israel. And in those neighborhoods, we have what's called Red cities that probably are going to be shut down over the next few days. Came August 16. The Ministry of Tourism didn't make any announcement about tourism but they did announce that Israeli passport bearers coming into Israel are no longer required to have a 14 day quarantine. That's the first step to indicate that a green country will be able to travel to Israel. And the question is when they're going to do that, one of the other issues that I witnessed was what's called capsule or bubble tourism. The concept is that most sites are open, but they limit the amount of the number of people that can enter the site at a given time. So when I went to Zippori to take a day course with the person in charge of water, the history of water in Zippori and in the Galilee, it was limited to 25 people. So we were told that if we don't show up, we should please tell the organizers so they can let someone else in case you show. And it was very interesting to see that because everybody had a face mask and we kept social distance. And that's a requirement wherever you go. And it was very interesting to To visit Zippori after about probably 10 years since I last was there to see the extent of excavations that they've extended in Zippori. So basically tourism still at a standstill in Israel yet internally, Israelis are going all over there so much like in Canada Canadians are going all over Canada.
Jeff Futers :Hmm, yeah, it's given us the opportunity to see our own countries. Very, very, very interesting kind of spin, you know, my wife and I love to travel and we tend to be in Israel three four times a year usually. And we also like to go other places and to the US as well. That's been very different this year for us. You know, and and anybody I know that's listening are experiencing the very same thing. I'm a little jealous, you know, that you got to you got to go to Israel. And, but for us, you know, to go and quarantine for 14 days is just not financially feasible. at all.
Avie Esakov :There's also right now the requirement is that any individual not Israeli passport holder from a green country has to receive permission from the consulates to go to Israel and certain conditions that they have to fulfill. The basic concept, though, is COVID-19 is something that each individual is responsible for, and hence this whole, like bureaucracy that that is being set up. Hopefully, once they do open the borders for tourism, that bureaucracy will again, be sidelined with perhaps a waiver of sorts that will be drafted for people to understand what it is they're undertaking. In the meantime, the travel insurance issue is a very, very big problem up until March 15th, if I remember correctly, any event that happened through insurance was covered including COVID-19, between February 20, and about March 15, roughly. But as of that point when a federal travel advisory was issued, and it hasn't been rescinded, to avoid all unnecessary travel period, which is completely new in the world, and tourism has been shut down. And the travel insurance policies will not cover COVID-19. I found two travel insurance companies that will provide us with cancel for any reason it's called CFAR and you're insured up until seven days prior to departure to 75% of the value of the journey that you're taking. And if it's within the seven days 50%. I found an Israeli insurance company that can insure people who have their own insurance for medical related COVID-19 issues. So we have that set up to sort of like provide peace of mind for people, right, with that view of at least you will be insured, even though most travel insurance companies will not insure. The one policy, which I find very interesting is one where in most cases if you receive a travel credit voucher, then insurance won't pay. There's one insurance policy that I found that will pay if you refuse to take the or or you denied the travel credit voucher, they will pay again up to 75% or 50% of the value depending on the timelines. Okay.
Jeff Futers :Very interesting. Well, you were able to visit a number of places while you're there. And of course, you mentioned you're in your third day of quarantine back here. Now in Canada, you've got about 11 days to go. And I hope somebody's looking after you hope somebody bringing your groceries and doing all that kind of stuff.
Avie Esakov :gateway.com It works well.
Jeff Futers :Okay, very good. Very good. Very good. You mentioned the the water, the water system in the Galilee and and this recent discovery in Zippori. I'm going to throw a picture up on the screen here if I can. And talk to me a little bit about what has been discovered here. We'll make sure this hopefully works.
Avie Esakov :So it's remarkable that wherever Israel does any earthwork the Israel antiquity institution has to excavate. In this case, people are standing behind a ritual bath, and mikvah. You can see the mortar and plaster on segments of it where there are three men standing and just underneath them, there's our line of stone, and underneath that you can see the mortar that covered or sealed the ritual bath. The unusual thing about this ritual bath is that it's discovered in an area about a kilometer away from Zippori. But there's no family home that's been found nearby, nor have they found any evidence of olive or olive oil or wine products. Generally speaking, mikvah ritual bath will be found either in close proximity to the temple for purification reasons as you came to Jerusalem on any of the feasts, or if you're producing olive oil or wine to make it a kosher product, you had to be spiritually pure before you went into harvest or or make the wine or the oil, right and so right now, the idea is to excavate This is on a ridge that is roughly about two hectares big and so the road will be covering the area of this ritual bath. I helped crowdfund the transfer the the moving of that ritual bath to a kibbutz nearby, and the kibbutz so happens to have a regular ritual bath on the kibbutz and now they'll have an antique ritual bath that they hope to plaster and use in the future.
Jeff Futers :Fantastic. I find those things so intriguing and I know that people listening are, will as well. By the way, if you're listening to the podcast and you want to see the image that we just shared, you can also go to our YouTube channel and watch the podcast there. This is this is now you say they moved this ritual bath to a kibbutz nearby?
Avie Esakov :Yes, they have the funding to move it to a kibbutz that's about as the crow flies, probably a kilometre west of the ritual bath two kilometres west of of Zippori.
Jeff Futers :Very, very interesting. I guess they do that what, piece by piece and reassemble it?
Avie Esakov :Well, no, no, no, they have to sink a concrete they have to drill holes around the, the ritual bath, and then they have to put the whole well on one side they have to go open a trench big enough to slip metal rods underneath. Okay, the width of the ritual bath, pour concrete to connect it to those metal rods and then when they lift it hopefully nothing is going to shift and they will just take it like in a pod and carry it to the kibbutz nearby.
Jeff Futers :Wow, that's very cool.
Avie Esakov :And if you remember when they found the ancient boat in the mud in the Sea of Galilee, yeah, come up with some idea some way of getting it to a place where they could conserve it. And so there they used they dug out a huge, like a trench around the boat. They they covered the boat in styrofoam like you The lining of a refrigerator has got styrofoam in there. Yeah. So like a canister that you have and you just push a little button that goes and they actually encase the boat in styrofoam. Then they opened the dam that had held the because that season, there was sufficient rain and they had to build the dam to prevent the losing the boats to the water again, right. And they opened that dam and the boat sailed for the first time in 2000 years. That's the kind of stuff that we do and it's the same. Well, in Zippori, the same conserver the person who was in charge of conserving the boat, conserved a bronze bull that was found under one of the water, water container... water pool in Zippori...very interesting find.
Jeff Futers :That's amazing. I love the story of the of the boat and we go and watch the video every time when we're there with a group. It is incredible to see how that they have that they preserved all of that and were able to actually move it and put it on display there... phenomenal.
Avie Esakov :Jeff, even more remarkably, when the boat was first housed in a container outside the museum, where they were doing the restoration, they had to put cellulose in in place of the water because the wood was waterlogged. And so for about five years, all you could see was milk. But there wasn't a group that I guided of Christians who didn't go to visit that container and look at nothing, because the boat was there.
Jeff Futers :Wow. That is pretty incredible. By the time I started going, it was already on display. Yeah, it was about 2006 or so.
Avie Esakov :Didn't you go with your farther with us?
Jeff Futers :I did. Yeah. Yeah, it was my first trip. Yeah, my first trip I you know, I don't know if I ever told you any of my story, but I I was As a pastor for 30 years, almost 20...20-some years at that point, and really had never given much credence to the idea of going to Israel, I hadn't even thought about it much felt like it was much of a priority, anything like that. And it was my dad who finally convinced me to go. And well, you can see now, I have, I have sort of done an about face on that attitude. But I think it's important for every pastor to go and we actually have been working on a project to get students to go Bible college students from our college in Peterborough. And we were supposed to be in Israel the last two weeks of August. But as you said, everything in Israel has been closed down. And so that tour didn't happen. But we're looking forward to hopefully planning that again for next year.
Avie Esakov :Yeah. Bear in mind that you might be looking at temperatures between 38 and 42 degrees the last four days of August were that thought,
Jeff Futers :I warned them. They, we had a conversation with, you know, with the faculty and they said, Look, this is the time of year that works best for us. And I said, well, it's super hot in Israel then. But if that's what you want to do, we planned some activities around, you know, being in and out of the water, a fair bit and more air conditioned type things. But yeah, we're, we're still looking looking to do it. It should be good should be good. Hey, there was another, another discovery just recently, outside of Jerusalem, and I'll share this screen. I've got about five pictures here of this. I want you to talk to us about this discovery. You seeing that?
Avie Esakov :Yup. So what we're looking at are what called what are called proto a Alec. They've been given the name of proto... proto aeolic, mainly because when Schumacher about probably 200 years ago found them. He didn't know what they were, but they looked like ionic capitals. And so he looked for a name couldn't find the name and somebody suggested aeolic like ionic, but it's not the same date. So what we're looking at is some kind of an important masonry. That's part of a huge amount of these stones that have been discovered in Israel. In Megiddo. alone, there were 13. But what we're looking at, if you have ever taken a glance at the bottom of a palm tree, a date palm tree in Israel, and you, and you might remember Isaiah 11:1, a shoot came out of the base of Jessie? Basically what we're looking at is those shoots that come out of the palm tree. Now the date palm tree, because of the shoots last for eternity. And so when we refer to David as a shoot coming out of the stamp of Jesse, we're looking at David for eternity. And David, for the Jewish people, exists for eternity. So what we're looking at here seems to be the base of a date palm tree. And since its eternity, it could be some kind of votive stone masonry that's put into opulent buildings. The other part of what was found what was unique about these is that there were found one on top of each other. And I'm not aware of how many places or how many other places we found one on top of the other. We're not sure yet, because it's an Israel antiquity excavation. We're not sure Yet if this was burial or destruction, if it's destruction and they fall one on top of each other, it's pretty unique because we, there at least one school of thought led by Dr. Norma Franklin, which says these aren't capitals for structure. These are a votive stone met stone piece that's put into a wall or a column, but not for the support. It's, it's for eternal life. Okay. And these ones covered in Jerusalem. And there you see the one that's been taken out and the guy's hands or on the other one still covered. This is in an area called the governor's hill where the United Nations headquarters is. And there's a wonderful promenade called the Haas promenade where you see the south side of the Old City of Jerusalem, and that's that particular construction, that particular building. That was there. dates back to just off to the Assyrian siege 701 BC that had a wonderful view of David's city and the Old City of Jerusalem just off to the esat. It's remarkable in the context of siege and destruction and within one generation, opulent buildings are going up in and around Jerusalem. That excavation comes adjacent to Kibbutz Ramat Rahel, which is a stone's throw 500 yards south west of there, and another excavation in Talpiyot next to the US Embassy where they found an administration center that's on one of the hilltops. There, probably 19 of these hilltops going from the Old City, out south and west, in Jerusalem. And for many years, we didn't know what these hilltops were. Albright excavated one of the one of them, and he put a line down the middle and so all these mounds were called Albright's arch(?), excuse my Hebrew. But basically one of those was excavated near the American Embassy in Talpiyot. And they found what they've dubbed an administration center in the kingdom of Judah just after the siege by Sennacherib.
Jeff Futers :And these are fairly recent discoveries, aren't they?
Avie Esakov :These are all excavations that have taken place over the last 18 months. And as such as that this last one that you just showed the photos from, excuse me, was from about five, six months ago, where they've just discovered those stones.
Jeff Futers :Wow, it's fantastic. I I'm always amazed to hear the new things that are being uncovered. And, you know, we, we sometimes are in Israel, and there'll be like, road construction or a detour around something and you wonder what's going on over there. And then I come home and I see it on the internet, you know? Yeah, that's that's where that's where the road construction was. They found something else... And this discovery, I think, is is so significant because it goes back to that kind of first temple era. And that's, that's just amazing to me.
Avie Esakov :Yeah, it's great. And you know, Route 6, which is one of the major arteries like 407. The same company, by the way, is running it. When they excavate going around that area, they found the oldest Neolithic village ever. And it's a very big, organized village. Pre pottery Neolithic was never considered a time where there was sufficient governance to have a village of any size and yet, and one of the one of the exits from this highway, they discovered a large Neolithic Village, this is 10, 15,000 years old. So these are things that happen often in Israel. As the construction goes crazy, so does excavation go crazy, and luckily enough we find different things at different times. I was also very lucky to partake of a group of about 20 odd 25 odd tour guides with Dr. David Gourevitch, whose PhD was on the what the ancient water systems of Jerusalem. And I've been guiding for many years and it's amazing how much I learned from one day with David Gourevitch about ancient water systems in Israel.
Jeff Futers :Incredible. Well, this is awesome. I appreciate you taking some time to talk with us today Avie, and I wish you extremely well on your next 11 days of quarantine. Like you. You're not prepared I know to make any kind of predictions about about tourism, but you know, I want to give people some hope. You know, is a year from now realistic? Is is March realistic. What do you think?
Avie Esakov :Well If we look at the the line of the development, visa vi Israeli passport holders and entering into Israel, it seems rational to think that should Israel get a more of a control of the numbers there. They will go ahead and open up for tourism. And so we're looking at possible january, february dates that still might work for travel to Israel. But realistically, I think if anyone's planning a journey right now, I would say plan for October November 2021. And by then perhaps we will have the vaccine and that can change the whole the whole scene altogether.
Jeff Futers :Right right. Now, I think people if we're talking about October, November 2021, people would want some kind of assurance that you know, should COVID-19 still be a factor at that point, that, you know, there's a way out. That there's some sort of insurance to let them know that, you know, they're not any money they put up front, they're going to be able to get back. I think that's reasonable, right.
Avie Esakov :So what we're what we're setting up right now is we're looking at making our terms and conditions a little bit more liberal when it comes to the pandemic, particularly. So we will give assurances to people joining any of our tours, that they will get a refund, should COVID-19 still impact the viability of their journey. That hasn't been the case with the groups that were in on paper for the first six months. It's been an established norm to provide a travel credit voucher. And so finding the travel insurance company that will pay out even if somebody does not accept the travel credit voucher was a very important step to making another possible way of giving people their money back. Right? Okay. I mean, everybody's been impacted by, by COVID-19 people in Canada, all over the world. And the extent of the shutdown initially caused some financial strife that we're still dealing with now. And so, somebody who is the typical Christian pilgrim, who might gather dollars and cents to make a once in a lifetime journey, that kind of outlook isn't a good one for people who gather money to go on that once in a lifetime kind of trip, but we can assure people that their money is protected and will be refunded should COVID-19 impact the viability of a group journey?
Jeff Futers :Okay, that's good. Good to know. Now, people who are listening may want to connect with you. They might want to know a little bit more about the company that you're working with. Give us that information so that we can include it in the in the podcast.
Avie Esakov :So, I'm at Unique and Inspiring Journeys. My phone number is 1-877-999-8868. And the extension is 424 if you're dialing from outside of the GTA and inside the GTA 416-444-6666 and again, extension 424 my email address you have it's avi@ihtours.com.
Jeff Futers :Okay, fantastic. Well, we will make sure that we include all that information if people want to reach out and connect with you. I know that if you're listening or watching and traveling to Israel with a group is something that you would love to do, Avi would take really great care of you and so we just want to encourage you to connect with him and He is going to plan for you a tour that will definitely go ahead in 2021. Right?
Avie Esakov :Correct. And we do that with an Israeli company. That is a unique company, Sarel Tours & Travel are a Messianic organization that I'm dealing with now solely in Israel. And it's a remarkable organization. They have a wonderful studio overlooking David's City. We will be having, well, God willing two groups will materialize Marie Miller and Todd Manuel, and they will have Passover Seder overlooking the area of the Last Supper, which will be broadcast live to Canada.
Jeff Futers :Very cool. Is that a joint trip that they're doing?
Avie Esakov :They're not they're not traveling together. They'll be in Jerusalem together.
Jeff Futers :Okay, so so it'll be...
Avie Esakov :Todd Manuel is doing an 11 day journey, which includes Jordan and Marie Miller is doing a 10 day journey Israel only Marie's been to Israel many times Todd has been to Israel many times as well. Todd was one of the pastors on that original PAOC journey with Filmora.
Jeff Futers :Yes, right. I believe my friend Doug was as well.
Avie Esakov :Yes, Doug Rhind was on that one too. Correct? Yeah. Yeah. Our friend,
Jeff Futers :Our friend. Well, he's been my friend for a long time, but I'll share him with you. That's okay. Okay. I don't know if you know, but Doug is. Doug is a grandfather now.
Avie Esakov :Yes, I saw that on Facebook and wished him well, yeah, yeah.
Jeff Futers :Very proud Grandpa, and...
Avie Esakov :He's still got eleven to go to catch up to me.
Jeff Futers :I know. I know. I've got I have nine to go to catch up to you. But we'll get there. Maybe we'll see. We will. We will. God bless. Yeah. Listen, Avie great to have you and God bless you. And we'll we'll connect again soon.
Avie Esakov :Toda Roba, Thank you and here's to travel to Israel in 2021
Jeff Futers :Next year in Jerusalem,
Avie Esakov :Yup, next year in Jerusalem. Thanks so much.
Jeff Futers :Well, that was very interesting. And I hope you enjoyed my guest, Avie Esakov. Today, Avie is just a wealth of information. Not only is he very in tune with what's happening in the tourism industry as it relates to Israel, he's also a wealth of knowledge and information having been a tour guide in Israel for over 30 years. And what I like about it is that he also stays up to date with what's happening with new discoveries. And we heard a little bit of information today about the mikvah, the ritual bath that was found near Zippori up in the Galilee region, and also the stones that were found outside of Jerusalem that are from the First Temple era, just incredible, incredible discoveries in the last six to 18 months. So thank you for tuning in today. If you want to connect with Avie, don't forget His email is avie@ihtours.com. And you can also reach him by phone 1-877-999-8868 at his company, Unique and Inspiring Journeys. And we want to encourage you if you're looking to go to Israel the next year or two or longer talk to Avie, he's a great, great resource. Also, don't forget that First Century Foundations is a ministry. We are a charitable organization that helps ministries in the land of Israel, Christian and Messianic ministries, and we can receipt you for your donations both in the United States and in Canada. Just go to our website, www.firstcenturyfoundations.com/donate and you can help our ministry there. We would appreciate so much your partnering with us, looking to have you partner on a monthly basis if that's something that you would be interested in doing, it would just help us so much. God bless you today. It's been great to have you with us on the podcast. And remember, as Christians, we stand with Israel.