Keeping It Israel

Jim Cantelon, Interview with Co-Founder of King of Kings Community Jerusalem

September 30, 2020 Jeff Futers Season 1 Episode 25
Keeping It Israel
Jim Cantelon, Interview with Co-Founder of King of Kings Community Jerusalem
Show Notes Transcript

Jeff interviews Rev. Jim Cantelon, co founder of King of Kings Community Jerusalem back in 1983. Jim has gone on to work for 100 Huntley Street, pastor Broadway Church in Vancouver, BC. From there, he founded Visionled, which became Working for Orphans and Widows (WOW), a ministry focused on HIV Aids sufferers in Sub Saharan Africa. He continues to be the Founder and President of this great organization along with other writing and television projects he is involved in as well, including his own show 'Jim Cantelon Today.' Jim shares his story and his thoughts on why supporting Israel is important, as well as whether or not understanding and connecting with the Jewish roots of faith require us as Gentiles to 'act Jewish' or not.

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Unknown Speaker :

Welcome to the 'Keeping it Israel' podcast with Jeff Futers. We're Jeff and his guests talk. Everything is real as it relates to Christian faith and the church. If you are a Christian and you stand with Israel, you will be encouraged and challenged by this podcast. And if you're not so sure about the whole Israel thing, you need to learn how your faith connects with Israel, and why standing with Israel matters. Now, here's Jeff with today's guest.

Jeff Futers :

Welcome to the podcast today. And my name is Jeff, I'm your host. And my guest today is Reverend James Cantelon. And I have known pastor Cantelon, for some time, actually, I knew your dad, briefly, your dad preached my father in law's funeral. Don't know I've ever told you that before. But Homer was just a great sort of looming presence in many of our lives in Western Ontario district of the PAOC. But anyhow, Jim is our guest today. Jim has a great story. And I'm not going to tell it to you because I know that he wants to do that. So, Jim, first of all, welcome to the podcast.

Jim Cantelon :

Well, thanks, Jeff. It's It's great to be with you on this podcast, and to be a part of that big media universe out there that just seems to get bigger and bigger as we breathe.

Jeff Futers :

Absolutely. And you're very familiar with that. And I know that we'll share a little bit about that as we move forward. I want to talk in the beginning here about sort of the original call to head to Israel, and start a congregation in the city of Jerusalem. Tell us just a little bit about...first of all, how did that all come about?

Jim Cantelon :

You know, it would take me a good hour or two to do justice to the story. So I'll give you the Reader's Digest condensed version here. I was pastoring, just north of Toronto, we had just built a new church called Cedarview Community Church. And the place is booming and about 800 people and all young families...it was it was terrific. But in the process of doing this, a broadcast entity in Toronto, one of the big stations who knew about me, one of their vice presidents was involved in building a small radio station in southern Lebanon for a Christian organization out of California called High Venture. And they were under great threat from the PLO in southern Lebanon. The uh, there was a an old Crusader castle cold Beaufort Castle, just up above this little abandoned Customs House, they'd made the station and they were shelling from Beaufort castle down into the valley and to try and hit the station. The staff were very, very stressed and they needed a break. And so they contacted me and asked me if I would come over and relieve these beleaguered people for three weeks. Knowing full well that I was going into a battle zone, there would be tanks and mortars and, you know, aircraft and all kinds of things that would be surrounding me. But I sensed from the Lord I should do it. You know, I you know, I just, I had this fantastic new church and very young family, three little kids. But my sense from the Lord was that this was his calling, and I should do it. And it was I suppose it was risky. But you know, I I've never been one to be risk averse. At the same time. I don't believe in being irresponsible. But I do ride a motorcycle.

Jeff Futers :

Me too!

Jim Cantelon :

Anyway, while I was there in southern Lebanon, and one night when I was under duress, and I thought maybe I was going to die that night, in southern Lebanon, broadcasting from this little abandoned Customs House with this little radio station, I really had an encounter with the Lord about coming to Israel, with young people at that point from Canada who would provide volunteer work for the various kibbutzim in Israel that were always in need of volunteers. And so while I was...when I was back in Canada, I was promoting this idea with the churches across the nation. And the response was so phenomenal that I had to go back to Israel to set up what we call Kibbutz Shalom. And it's interesting how these things converged but the government wanted to talk to me about this. I've often been asked why and I think it's because It happened to be at a period of time back in 1981 when Israel needed friends, and they knew that I represented the Assemblies of God in Canada, and that that was about 11 or 1200 churches who were very supportive of Israel. So they saw me as a friend. But they also had done their homework on me. I didn't realize till much later that, you know, there's no intelligence, like Israeli intelligence.

Jeff Futers :

It's exactly right!

Jim Cantelon :

They ah...they knew me better than I knew myself. Anyhow, in a meeting where I had officials from the Ministry of Tourism, the Ministry of Religion and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, they were questioning me and having me make my presentation. And it was in that setting that they made this suggestion they said, 'you know, Jim, this is a very good idea this Kibbutz Shalom, but you cannot be coordinating it from your from Toronto, you must to be here in Yerushaliym.' And there was the pause. And then they said, 'Would you consider establishing an International Church in Yerushaliym?' It's good thing I was sitting down. I mean, I, who would ever expect that? I mean, that's something you couldn't even pray about? Yeah, it was just one of those one of those divine moments. And, of course, I said, Yes. Kathy was with me, and she kicked me under the table. But I mean, that's not the last time she ever kicked me under the table, you know, we just we had just dedicated our new church, had this young family, had little... three little kids seven, five and three years of age, I'm going to pick up and move to this foreign country with foreign language that has a strong sensitivity to Christianity. Anyhow, long story short, we, we made the move in November of '81. And for the next year and a half, we just basically worked at being, becoming enculturated. I ran the Kibbutz Shalom program and bringing young people over to live and work as volunteers, Kathy and I got into Hebrew studies at the Hebrew University. And our oldest child who was seven years of age at the time. In December, we put him into the local elementary school with David and Paula Ben Gurion Elementary School. And he didn't know a word of Hebrew and the principal, a woman took him under her wing, and gave him an hour of English or I should say, Hebrew lessons every day. And then of course, he's interacting with his friends on you know, who all speak Hebrew... In his grade 2 class and by March, he was fluent. And by June, he was in the top five in this class. Our second son Jess and our daughter, Kate, they came through the ??, through kindergarten. And so they picked up Hebrew, you know, as naturally as they spoke English. Kathy became very fluent in Hebrew very quickly, because she was doing all the family business grocery shopping, and whatever interacting with neighbors, I was the slow guy. I'd taken Hebrew in University, but you know, it was Biblical Hebrew, so it took a while for me to catch on to the English or to the modern Hebrew. I'm still not very good at it. But a year and a half in, we planted you know, at that time we called it JCA, Jerusalem Christian Assembly, in an apartment. And so we founded it on that day in August of 'z83. And then a week or so later, Wayne and Ann Hilsden came and joined us as co pastors and co founders. And the rest is history eventually it became King of Kings and now it never stopped growing and still hasn't stopped growing. It's a very alive and vital church with huge impact of about 12 congregations meet in the in the facility has been built. And there's a university now that started in my office. There's a huge social justice ministry and big media ministry, and then a very large ministry that is coordinating a number of Israeli ministries in Israel called FIRM, Fellowship of Israel Related Ministries. Yes. So you know, again, that's just a kind of a snapshot. But you know, people have often asked me, so why aren't you still there? Why did you leave? I mean, most preachers would give their eyeteeth to preach once in Jerusalem. But my answer is very clear. The Lord called me as a pioneer as a planter, as a seed scatterer, if you will, my job was to get it established to get the DNA right, and to bring it to bring in people that eventually would do a better job than I would have done. And the Hilsden's are number one, but then we trained the number of Jewish believers as pastors and the upshot of it is that it has been not just a sustainable ministry, but a thriving ministry.

Jeff Futers :

That's amazing and King of Kings, of course, is a key partner for, for us in, in Jerusalem, and has been for Clyde and Marion Williamson for over 30 years now. It was kind of out of the the prayer tower and all of all of that, that really the Ministry of First Century grew and used to be called Operation outreach, as you probably know, and so we love to hear the story of the founding of the ministry. Wayne has shared it from his perspective, but I wanted to hear it from from you today as well. And I, it I'm glad you answered the question about, you know, why am I not still there? Because, of course, I was gonna say so. So you know, what is that? What is that about? You know, you you go you plant? And I certainly fully understand your question here, or your answer, I should say, but but here is something that, that maybe I'll pivot off of, and that is this what, what does that initial call to to Israel, that initial call to the city of Jerusalem? How does? How has that played out throughout the rest of your life and ministry? Because I know that I know that Israel never leaves you. What kind of impact does that have in an ongoing way?

Jim Cantelon :

Well, first of all, just a very personal level, you know, if you ask me, right, where our family hometown is, my answer is Jerusalem. We raised we raised our kids there. And all three of them are they're pastors, all three of them in the ministry today. And all three of them when they were married, they took their new spouses to Jerusalem on a honeymoon to show them their hometown. So on a personal level, Jerusalem is our hometown. And whenever I'm back, and they get back quite quite often, I just pick up where I left off. It's hilarious, you know, I'll sometimes walk down the Ben Yehuda mall, and there's a there's a few merchants there who sell various things. And they were there when I lived there, and they're still there now. And no kidding, this has happened more than once. I'll be walking by or I'll stop and look at them, eye to eye. 'Jim, how are you? I haven't seen you for a while. Where have you been?' You know, in Jerusalem they are so used to diplomatic travel, people going away with the government for five years at a time. That it's it's just, it's, it's a matter of course for them for a person to be away for a few years, and to come back. And this is a part of the phenomenon. And then of course, you know, walking those streets I'm walking the same pavements that I walked when I was pastoring, or planting a church and pastoring there, and, you know, with my kids in hand, I mean, it's, it's the only city in the world that has that kind of historical presence. It's not just old, it's ancient. And when something is ancient, it doesn't change much even over the course of 40 years.

Jeff Futers :

Yeah, yeah.

Jim Cantelon :

But then in terms of, apart from that personal aspect, in terms of the work that, you know, we've been doing subsequently. I've always felt like I've come into, you know, North America, and now through media, to the rest of the world out of Jerusalem. I feel like I'm a part of that calling for the word of the Lord out of Jerusalem. I'll always feel that way. Because my ministry, roots, became very deeply transplanted in Jerusalem and will be there forever.

Jeff Futers :

Yeah. I feel that way too. Even just since my first trip there. I had no idea where the Lord would lead us to to the point that we're at now, but it's just one of those places that gets in your heart and in your spirit. So you came back from, from Jerusalem. And tell me what what was the next sort of step of your ministry journey? I know you're involved in in TV for quite some time. Did you go immediately to that?

Jim Cantelon :

No, for what eight months, I itinerated on behalf of King of Kings, all across Canada. And we were based out of London, Ontario. And then while I was doing that, I got a call from David Mainse who is well known in Canada. He has gone to be with the Lord a few years ago, but he established a ministry called Crossroads Christian Communications, and the international Christian television show called 100 Huntley street, and a daily show, very high profile. And he contacted me and asked me if I would be his senior associate. And I felt from the Lord I should do that. I had done a lot of TV work with him before going to Israel. And then of course, in Israel, I was doing radio all the time, and then Kathy was a newscaster there on television. So we were, you know, very media savvy and had a sense from the Lord that media was a part of, is calling on our lives. So anyway, I agreed to do it. And for eight years, Dave and I worked together, and then I, I felt the Lord leading me into pastoring, again for a period of time. And so I, I pastored Broadway Church in Vancouver, British Columbia for two and a half years. And when I was there, the Lord exposed me to the ravages of HIV and AIDS among mainly Aboriginal women in East Vancouver. And I had had no exposure really, to HIV and AIDS until that point in time, but I was very involved in East Vancouver with our church and ministry there. And so I began to research HIV and AIDS, and I discovered it was the biggest orphan and widowmaker in the history of mankind. And I, I was so impacted by that truth. And Psalm 68 verse 5 where it says 'God is a father to the fatherless, and a defender of widows, in his holy habitation.' And I sensed the Lord was calling me out of that very affluent, you know, anchor type church into another period of trailblazing, in this case, on behalf of orphans, widows in Sub Saharan Africa, and I had a connection with Sub Saharan Africa, because while I was pastoring, in Jerusalem, the Assemblies of God in South Africa, used to bring me down to do major conferences and conventions out of Jerusalem. So there was already kind of a network of pastors, young pastors there, who looked at me as an older guy who, you know, they would like to emulate in terms of church planting. And so I had a natural connection. And it was through that I began, I resigned Broadway Church, and they began a ministry called Visionled, which now is known as WOW,working for orphans and widows. And for 21 years now, we've been very involved with thousands of orphans and widows. Interestingly, a lot of the orphans we dealt with 21 years ago are now young adults, teachers, lawyers, doctors, pastors, whose lives were utterly and totally transformed by the gospel, themselves giving back and ministering to the next generation of orphans widows under our umbrella.

Jeff Futers :

That's amazing. Fantastic. And you are still the Founder and President of that organization, you're continuing to work with them?

Jim Cantelon :

Yeah, yeah. You know, I live in denial. I'm 73. I think I'm 43. And I'm sticking to that I, I have no sense at all of slowing down or have any compression of vision. I've got a bigger horizon I'm pursuing now than I ever have in my whole life. And so I'm just loving life and embracing it.

Jeff Futers :

That's great. But you've done some side projects along the way as well. I have seen you on a show you did with um, trying to remember the organization you did it with, but it was kind of a devotional through Israel. Not that many years ago.

Jim Cantelon :

Yeah. That was with Day of Discovery. Yeah, they contacted me. This was Day of Discovery Canada. It was also Day of Discovery USA. The USA had decided they would no longer do television work. They had done it for many years. But in Canada, they wanted to get one final kick at the can. And so they asked me if I would do 26 shows for them on location, Israel, just walking through those locations and relating it to the scriptures. And I agreed to do it. It was the height of summer. We did 26 shows in 12 days.

Jeff Futers :

Oh boy...

Jim Cantelon :

Nearly...nearly killed me. When we were down in...

Jeff Futers :

12 days, Jim.

Jim Cantelon :

Yeah. 12 days 26 shows with a full camera crew, you can imagine and traveling around Israel. When we were down in Qumran it was Fahrenheit it was. Shoot, what was it, it was? Well, Fahrenheit, it was 124 degrees. That's what it was,

Jeff Futers :

Oh, my goodness.

Jim Cantelon :

And I had to climb that hill behind Qumran about halfway up because they wanted to have a certain perspective with the cameras, right. And I thought that was gonna be my last walk. When I got when I got back from doing that day of shooting, I wasn't sure that I would see the next day. And then you know, in the upper Galilee, it wasn't much better, I mean, anywhere on the Sea of Galilee is subtropical as you know, and so the temperature was as it was in Qumran. But having said that, that series was very well received. It's still available out there, with Day of Discovery. And I'm hoping that they'll be able to run it again, in some context. They've actually given me permission to put it on my own website, which I'm going to do but it was it was terrific. I loved that experience.

Jeff Futers :

Well, listen, let me let me ask you something because, you know, our ministry... First Century Foundations, and I know you're familiar. Your son Jess was connected a little bit when he was fundraising to go back to Jerusalem. And he, by the way, is a pastor here in my hometown now I live in Barrie. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, we had already been, we had already been attending the other church when when Jess came, but we've had a chance to connect. I did a podcast with him, believe it or not a couple of weeks ago. But I forgot to press record. So I have to do it all again. So I don't know if that's ever happened to you. But it happened to me,

Jim Cantelon :

I could entertain you with all kinds of things that have happened with live television.

Jeff Futers :

I'd love to hear some of those. I'd love to hear some of those. But what I was going to say is, you know, I know that because of your connection with Israel, because of your your time spent there and your passion to get what was eventually King of Kings up and running and founded and established. I know that, that reaching the Jewish and the Arab people who live there still has to be something that's, that's deep in your heart. If you were to talk to our viewers and say to Christians, especially in North America today, why it's important to take a stand for Israel to bless Israel. What would you say to them?

Jim Cantelon :

Well, you know, to me, it's a no brainer. It's not a political thing. Not even a religious thing. Our Savior, Jesus, yes, was a Jew. Mm hmm. The apostles were all Jewish. The writers of the New Testament, were all Jewish, as were the writers of the Old Testament with the exception in the New Testament of Luke, who was a Gentile physician. Our whole concept of sin, salvation, atonement, justification, sanctification, our theology, our worldview, is all rooted in the Jewish scriptures. And if you if you try to remove your faith as a Christian from your Jewish roots, you essentially cut it off at the roots and the whole thing dies. So, when it comes to Israel, to me, it's a no brainer. I, you know, I, I had a, you know, I had some very straightforward conversations with Jewish friends and colleagues, when we lived in Jerusalem. I had a lot of politicians, professors, men and women in the arts, and also in the Jerusalem Rotary Club, who were friends of mine. And, you know, so it was a kind of high level conversations I was having, but I would, I would raise the issues, you know, of apparent injustices that some Israeli policies were creating in the Middle East, I also had a number of Arab friends, and we would talk about it from the Arab perspective. But I'd always bring it back to this is a temporal conversation. This is a current political reality that will probably in time change, for better or for worse, usually for worse. But ultimately, My interest is our relationship with the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Ishmael, okay. He is... he is the father of the faithful. And our issue is, how do we deal with with this Lord of all? And I remember a conversation I had one time, Kathy and I, with three professors in the Hebrew University, and one of the cabinet ministers from the Israeli government, and we were all together in a social event. And the question was often asked of us, 'what are you, what are you, what are you doing here? You're just a young couple, young kids, you know, you you leave Canada and you Why, why are you here? And I would explain to them without being pious that I was here because I felt that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, their God, had by His Spirit called me to come to Jerusalem to proclaim the Scriptures, both old and new scriptures. And I was just simply being obedient, if you will, to a heavenly calling. And I remember one of the professors, he was the Arabist at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. He was a worldwide expert on Arab issues. He was a Jewish Orthodox Jew and his wife in the silence... because always when I would talk this way, there'd be total silence. I mean, everybody would be silent and looking down. She looked up at me and says, 'Jim, I think you're more Jewish than the rest of us.' And you know, she wasn't joking. It's, you know, this whole scripture about Gentile faith, sometimes provoking the jealousy of those in Israel who may have wandered from their faith, I think there's something to it. But what I, what I did discover in all my years in Israel, with my Jewish friends, was the truth of that Scripture from Isaiah, when he talks about a bruised reed, he will not break and smoking flax He will not quench. It doesn't matter how secular that Jewish person is, when you talk to them about the ways of the Lord, it's like the wind of the Spirit goes on that smoking flax and a flame emerges. It creates, in many cases, great discomfort for them. Right. It's not the kind of discomfort that produces defensiveness. It produces soul searching and tears.

Jeff Futers :

Yeah. It's good. It's really good. You know, we, one of the things that I do when I'm allowed to move about the country, this this season, this year has been very interesting for all of us. But when I can get in and speak with churches, I'm, I'm challenging, you know, Christians to give give room for this thought, you know, that that Jesus is our Jewish Messiah, and that the roots of faith speak, and and help us to understand even the New Testament in a much better way. I know that, you know, this, you're working on a commentary right now, casual commentary, I think you called it you can talk about that in a second. But, but I know that, that you understand that, you know, first of all, the places that are spoken of in the Bible are real. And we can go and we can stand in those places. And we can be where Jesus was, but also, the context out of which they were written helps to inform what what it was that Jesus was saying to us. And sometimes we have so North Americanized or contextualized, the scripture that we're not really even fully understanding what Jesus is saying, is that would that be accurate?

Jim Cantelon :

Well, absolutely. First of all, I've encountered people who are astonished, shocked, even to hear me say Jesus was Jewish.

Jeff Futers :

Me too.

Jim Cantelon :

I remember one woman saying, 'Well, no, no, no, no, Jesus was Christian.' I mean, there's a basic ignorance right there that is just phenomenal to me. Yeah. But yeah, the contextualization of Christianity is something that we're all guilty of. And I think, you know, the apostle Paul, thank God, he did this in 1 Corinthians 13, he said, Now we see through a glass darkly. Now we know in part. In other words, none of us has full clear insight into the ways and the purpose of God in the world. Each of us is suffering from hermetic kind of a hermeneutical stigmatism. We interpret, and, and, and, and the very act of interpretation is, is flawed. And so to be dogmatic about our, our flawed interpretation, is counterproductive, to say the least and foolish. On the other hand, if you if you study, Matthew, Mark, Luke/Acts, because Acts is part two of Luke, and John, and that's what I've covered in my book, which is coming out very soon called 'Cantelon's Casual Commentary,' when you study just those gospels, without a North American contextual bias and I think it's possible to do that, especially well certainly from my perspective, having lived there for as long as I did, I mean, I these these place names, you know, these settings are all three dimensional for me. I know them, you know, I can smell them, I feel them. Anyway. To the extent that you're able to read Matthew, Mark, Luke, Acts and John just as an objective reader... you see Jesus in a light that perhaps you've not seen him before. You know, he's not the Jesus of the of the of the paintings, you know, the Jesus hanging on across the top of a hill with two crosses beside him, you realize that he was probably crucified at eye level right at the base of Calvary, the stoning ground the place where people were crucified so that the Romans could increase their suffering by having people walk right by look in the eye and spit in their face. But you know, you you begin to the Sea of Galilee takes on a different tone. The settings of Jesus ministry, the importance of Capernaum... And also you get exposed to the constant stress that Jesus was under from crowds and crowds and crowds of people who wanted healing. It was like he was a wandering, health clinic. People weren't really interested in what he had to say, they were interested in what he could do for them. And, and, you know, you begin to see this, you see Jesus handling these stressful situations in such a remarkable fashion. You see the gap of understanding between Jesus and his disciples, right to the end, the disciples didn't get it. They were really religious nationalists. They wanted Jesus to establish the kingdom in Jerusalem and rule the world, and they would be his cabinet. Even to one point where James and John had their mother lobbying with Jesus to get one of the right one on the left, when he finally set up his government. Even after the resurrection, when he... asked them to come up, meet him in the Galilee, some of them came up there still doubting, you know. So, if you if you just look at the Gospels, you know, and forget about all the other stuff that has come with it in your upbringing in church and or and you're listening to television, televangelists, or you're reading various Christian authors. If you just try to approach the Gospels, person to person, Jesus will take on a persona and a signature that perhaps will totally take you by surprise.

Jeff Futers :

Yeah, yeah. That's really good. Now on the on the flip side, so So help me with this, because I, you know, debate this with people all the time. It's important for us to understand our Jewish roots, it's important for us to understand the context from which Jesus was coming from. In your estimation, does that mean that we have to throw out hundreds of years of Christian orthodoxy? Or can we find some balance there?

Jim Cantelon :

Well, that that's a question that is a kind of a closed ended question. If you do any reading in church history at all or interested in world history at all, you discover that orthodoxy means one thing in one century and means another thing in another century, and even in the same century, it means a different thing in this region and in that region, Orthodoxy is a work in progress. There is an orthodoxy that we we say is the current orthodoxy, but really Orthodoxy is, is a moving target. Secondly, we need to have appreciation for the development of a canon of Scripture. A lot of people don't realize that the canon of Jewish scripture was not really established by Jewish consent until between 90 AD and 120 AD, and Christian canon was not really established in terms of through common usage until about 200 AD. And it was not formalized till about 400 AD. And in the, in the process, you've got all these various books, various orthodoxies coming at you, you got, you got Hellenized worldviews, you got Gnosticism you have, you have Egyptian mythology, you've got Persian mythologies, and all these poor people, you know, who are now being presented with the gospel. They don't have the written scriptures to work with. And so they've got all these pressures coming in on them. And here's the Apostle Paul coming in and representing the words of Christ to them. And, and then, as the centuries unfolded, you've got various church councils, Constantine played a huge role in bringing councils together of various bishops and the the development of sort of basic orthodoxies and even as those orthodoxies were, were established, you had splits and so you got Western orthodoxy. You got Eastern Orthodoxy, you've got Coptic orthodoxies. So, you know, the word orthodox is a loaded, loaded word. So, this brings me again, back to the Gospels. What are the Gospels about? Well, first of all, gospel comes from a Greek word 'evangelion' ...evangelion which basically means good news or glad tidings. And it related to anything that was good news, it wasn't just the news of Jesus, it was news about the weather, you know, it's gonna be a great day today. Oh, that's, that's good news. You have in the gospels, you have the good news, that in this huge kaleidoscopic confusion of orthodoxies out there there is the brilliant light of God's love for the world, and becoming flesh and dwelling among us full of grace and truth, becoming incarnate, in a stable in Jerusalem...in Bethlehem, and then being crucified in Jerusalem and then rising to the dead, ascending to the Father with the promise that he's coming back. And critical to all of that. And this is where the gospels are really important. And the Apostle Paul makes this point in First Corinthians 15. Critical to all of this is the story of the resurrection. Everything pivots, everything pivots on the resurrection. Forget about orthodoxies out there. Everything pivots on the resurrection. If Christ be not risen, our faith is in vain, Paul said, he's absolutely right. And the thing about the resurrection is it happened in history. It's not, you know, some weird mystical thinker who had an apple hit him on the head and had this vision of the heavenlies. This is an actual historical event. And the grave is empty. And whenever I, you know, and I've got a brain, so do you, I've got an education, so do you and I interact with thousands of people, So do you. I, I could not be a Christian? If it were not for the fact that he has risen. But because he has risen, I'm able then to connect the dots. And the and the, if you will, the I won't call it the orthodoxy, but the the theological infrastructure of Old and New Testaments makes sense.

Jeff Futers :

Yeah. It's good. I just deal with lots of questions from people, you know, about all of the, the Jewish roots, you go in, and you talk about some of these things. And suddenly, you know, you find groups of people that don't want to have Christmas trees anymore, don't want to celebrate Christmas, the Bible didn't tell us to celebrate the birth of Jesus, and on and on and on, it goes, right, you've come across these people as well,

Jim Cantelon :

You know, what, when our very first Christmas with our congregation in Jerusalem I brought in a tree, and had it decorated, and ah, you know, some some of the some of the Jewish believers, you know, thought they should be offended. And some of them were offended. And I said, Excuse me, I'm a Christian. And that's what we do. All right. Yeah. So take it or leave it. Now fortunately, for me. And I, I got to be careful how I say this, but I know how to push back. And that this, this, this got me a long way in Israel. In Israel, if you don't know how to push back, they don't respect you. And I found this behind closed doors with government, you know, and with any missionary groups, and all kinds of people have tried to give me big trouble over those initial years. You had to know how to push back. Well I pushed back. I said, 'come on, this is what we do... call it a Hanukkah Bush, but the tree stays.' And you know, eventually I had not just Jewish believers, but also secular Jews showing up with their carol books. Why don't you sing, why don't you sing carols? Because many of them, you know, were born and raised in North America, and now they've made Aliyah to Israel and right, but they say, they said, Jim, you know, there's nothing like that, like the Christmas carols. I mean, they're the most beautiful songs we've ever sung. And so I remember one time in our apartment or our flat in, in the German Colony in Jerusalem we had about 22 secular Israelis with us, gathered around our Christmas tree and Kathy on the piano, singing 'O Little Town of Bethlehem.'

Jeff Futers :

That's awesome.That's great. I love that. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, and I, I try and sort of find that, that even keel ground with people and just help them to understand that, first of all, that as Gentiles, we're not called to be Jewish. We're called to follow the Jewish Messiah. You know, we are not, we're not to do everything that we can to, to sort of become Jewish. And and the same goes for the the Jews, the Jews don't have to become Christian in the sense that they follow every single one of our traditions, they they can see the Messiah in the appointed times of the Lord and continue to be Jewish. And in that sense, I think that's a real possibility.

Jim Cantelon :

You know, if there's one thing that Israelis respect, its authenticity.

Jeff Futers :

Right.

Jim Cantelon :

You got to be who you are. If you're not who you are, they smell it right away.

Jeff Futers :

Exactly.

Jim Cantelon :

If you're if you're approaching them with an agenda or with a kind of a two faced persona you set yourself up for ridicule. You just got to be who you are now. Again, I remember the very first conference at Wayne Hilton I attended just shortly after they arrived to work with us. We went to a conference of various congregations from around Israel of Jewish believers, and incorporated into all of these groups of course, were Gentiles. And we'd come to these conferences and the ones wearing kipot and tallit and looking very Jewish were always Gentiles. Yeah, the Jews, the Jews were just themselves, the Israelis were just themselves. You know, dressing up doesn't get you anywhere. Covering up doesn't get you anywhere. And this is the thing about the Gospel. The Gospel is in your face. The gospel is an offense to some, it's a blessing to others, but let the gospel be the gospel. And if you if you take some hits, you take some hits. I mean, I mean, who who doesn't take hits for for, for conviction, and for faith and for belief that that's just the way it goes. But to try to be what you're not is a sure slippery slope.

Jeff Futers :

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, Jim, thank you so much for taking some time with us today. I really appreciate being able to have this conversation and reminiscing about your time in Israel. That's been that's been fun for me to listen to and to hear. And I just pray blessing on everything that you're continuing to do through through Wow, in Sub Saharan Africa. It's wonderful ministry. As you know, we as a church when I was pastoring, followed along with you and got involved in a Christmas project every year and just was fantastic. So, so God bless you for all that you're doing. And thanks for taking the time with us today.

Jim Cantelon :

Jeff, I thank you. And I might say for those who want to follow me. I have a television program, which is also on the internet, jimcantelontoday.com jimcantelontoday.com, you can see all of my TV shows for the last four years. And wowmission.com also will connect you with our work in Sub Saharan Africa and India, but I would say this too Jeff. Um, Clyde Williamson, the founder of your ministry, is a long term friend of mine. And at a critical moment in my son Jess's life as he was following the Lord's leading in terms of his ministry in Israel, Clyde went to bat for him, and was very, very, very helpful to Jess in terms of providing him a kind of covering for the ministry that he was doing there. And so I have great regard for your work.

Jeff Futers :

Well, we have great regard for it as well, in terms of what Clyde and Marion together have built. We wanted this year to celebrate them. And their 35 years of going back and forth to Israel and being involved in ministry there. They are beginning to transition into a season of semi retirement after this year. And so it's been unfortunate that COVID has happened because we've not been able to have that that public celebration and but we honor them and and i know i know that none of this, this vision is here without them. And I'm grateful that, you know, God called us alongside to be a part of this and, and to be able to carry it into the future. And I pray I pray that this ministry that they have so meticulously and carefully built and put together will continue to thrive and even grow as we move into the future. So we're just praying that God will continue to help us to help all of these ministries in the land of Israel, and there's over 70 now that, you know that we're trying to do that for and just grateful that we can be involved.

Jim Cantelon :

That's terrific. Well, Lord, Shalom.

Jeff Futers :

Thank you, Jim. Shalom. Have a wonderful day. Well, thanks for tuning into the podcast today. It was great for me to be able to reconnect with Jim Cantelon. I hadn't spoken to him in quite some time. And I hope you enjoyed listening in on our conversation. Wonderful to hear about the early days of his time in Jerusalem and the founding of King of Kings Community, and also to get his perspective on what it means as believers for us to be able to make a connection with Israel to bless and support Israel. I also found it refreshing to hear his thoughts on how the Hebraic roots helps to inform us in our faith, but how that we need to also maintain a balance of being who we are in Christ and as part of the Gentile Christian church. I think that we've all maybe just gotten another perspective today and none of these thoughts are definitively right or definitively wrong. But I hope that you've enjoyed listening and hearing those perspectives. I would remind you about the projects that Jim mentioned, he has a television show, Jim Cantelon Today, and the website for that is jimcantelontoday.com. And also, if you want to know about their work in Sub Saharan Africa working with those who are suffering from HIV AIDS, then you can check out wowmission.com stands for Working with Widows and Orphans. And it's a great organization, I encourage you to check that out. Lastly, watch for his book 'Cantelon's Casual Commentary.' And I don't know how you can get that but I know that information will be coming out. And so if you just kind of keep your eyes and ears peeled, I'm sure you'll be able to learn something about that. Remember, we're a ministry, First Century Foundations that works with over 70 different ministries in the land of Israel. And so we want to just encourage you, if it is in your heart to help ministries in Israel, then would you donate? We're a charity here in Canada and in the US. And you can donate at our website, firstcenturyfoundations.com/donate, and all of your gifts will go towards the ministry of First Century Foundations and help us to help ministries in the land of Israel that are so in need, especially during this time of COVID-19. And so thank you very much for tuning in today. Pleasure to have you with us on the podcast and remember, as Christians, we stand with Israel!